Installing Non Mortise Hinge

Background: we have been restoring (not renovating) our 1929 kitchen for 2 years now. We are finally, FINALLY almost ready to paint the cabinets (after 2 weeks of prep work--and I'm only painting 1/2 of the kitchen right now). Last year I attempted to restore the original hinges. They were coated in multiple layers of paint, and turned out to be a poor quality, plated steel, non mortise hinge. The plating came off with the paint. They were rusty under the paint. And lots of ball finials were broken off.

Soooo, I gave up, and reluctantly ordered about 16 pairs of non mortise hinges from Horton Brasses. We are finally trying to install them. What a NIGHTMARE! I can't understand why non mortise hinges are advertised as easy to install. The main problem: the new hinges are much narrower (front to back) than my old hinges. In order for the inset cabinet door to close all the way, the hinge has to jut out about 1/8 (maybe a teeny bit less). This is how all the old hinges were done--jutting out a bit.

But the new hinges are so narrow, they cannot jut out. If they do, the screw holes would be ridiculously close to the edge of the door and also the face frame. I asked a very nice man at Horton Brasses about this, and he said that usually doors with these types of hinges are back bevelled.

He said he hadn't heard of jutting them out, but, come to think of it, that would work too. If the hinges are wide enough. I wish it had stated something about back bevelling on the website. Do most DIYers who are doing their own hinges actually have back bevelled doors?

Definition of a Full Mortise Hinge By Warren. Other than the appearance of the final hardware installation, there are other advantages to mortising a hinge. A disadvantage of selecting a mortised hinge style is the additional work and precision needed for the installation. A non-mortised hinge sits on the surface of the door and face. Installing non-mortise hinges. Mr Colman, JNSS, Peel District School Board.

I've never even seen a back bevelled door before. Ok, my choices, now that I've spent all this money on all these hinges: 1.

Install the hinge snug, with no jutting out. If we do this, the doors do not close all the way on their own. They boing open. However, we have cabinet latches that will hold the doors shut. I guess this adds stress to the hinge, but is that a problem? TheHusband doesn't want to do this because it is inelegant, and he thinks it looks like a hack job.

He wants things to be done properly. Back bevel ALL the doors. I don't want to do this. What if we mess up? The thick, fir 80 year old doors are irreplaceable.

Besides, I've just finished priming all the doors. I don't want to lug out the primer yet again.

This is TheHusband's choice. Mortise all the hinges? Probably way more work than back beveling.

And TheHusband hasn't done this before, so there is that whole 'learning curve' thing. One last question: Assuming we just go with option 1. Is there a trick/method to installing these hinges? Each door seems to be a careful custom job to get each wonky door centered in each wonky frame. Nothing is 'standard' in this old kitchen.

Is there a basic measuring technique we can use? Or is each door going to be a new experience in positioning.

Our test door looks like swiss cheese, it has so many holes in it. (I can try to post pictures if I have failed to explain any of this clearly.) That was long. If you made it this far, thank you thank you for any help you can offer!!! What I've noticed is that over time, with old doors, is that the mortised area tends to get 'pushed in' toward the edge, so when you remove all the gunk like paint/filler and remount the hinge, it sits lower in front, increasing the distance the door has to swing beyond 90 degrees. (I may not be able to describe it better.sorry). Here's a trick I've done.(if I'm understanding your problem correctly).' Build up' the mortised-out area toward the edge of the door with small strips of cardboard.

I glue it to the door. This lets the hinge sit a bit proud and seems to relieve some of the stress on the door, allowing it to close better. In fact, when I removed some of the same pot-metal hinges you are describing from 100-year old oak cabinet doors, I found that at some point someone had done exactly that. Ahh.A picture is worth a thousand words, lol. I'm glad you posted these as I had a different understanding of what you were talking about.

OK, here's Plan B;-) No need to mortise anything. As for the back beveling you can use a hand plane. Clamp the board down and just run the plane down the side 2 maybe 3 times at a slight angle 3-5 degrees (no more). A block plane would probably be the best tool to use, though a bench plane will work fine also. If using a table saw, tilt the blade a few degrees and run the piece through. As for the door springing open, it's most likely the screws aren't all flush.

Background: we have been restoring (not renovating) our 1929 kitchen for 2 years now. We are finally, FINALLY almost ready to paint the cabinets (after 2 weeks of prep work--and I'm only painting 1/2 of the kitchen right now). Last year I attempted to restore the original hinges. They were coated in multiple layers of paint, and turned out to be a poor quality, plated steel, non mortise hinge. The plating came off with the paint. They were rusty under the paint. And lots of ball finials were broken off.

Soooo, I gave up, and reluctantly ordered about 16 pairs of non mortise hinges from Horton Brasses. We are finally trying to install them. What a NIGHTMARE! I can't understand why non mortise hinges are advertised as easy to install. The main problem: the new hinges are much narrower (front to back) than my old hinges. In order for the inset cabinet door to close all the way, the hinge has to jut out about 1/8 (maybe a teeny bit less). This is how all the old hinges were done--jutting out a bit.

But the new hinges are so narrow, they cannot jut out. If they do, the screw holes would be ridiculously close to the edge of the door and also the face frame. I asked a very nice man at Horton Brasses about this, and he said that usually doors with these types of hinges are back bevelled.

He said he hadn't heard of jutting them out, but, come to think of it, that would work too. If the hinges are wide enough. I wish it had stated something about back bevelling on the website. Do most DIYers who are doing their own hinges actually have back bevelled doors?

Definition of a Full Mortise Hinge By Warren. Other than the appearance of the final hardware installation, there are other advantages to mortising a hinge. A disadvantage of selecting a mortised hinge style is the additional work and precision needed for the installation. A non-mortised hinge sits on the surface of the door and face. Installing non-mortise hinges. Mr Colman, JNSS, Peel District School Board.

I've never even seen a back bevelled door before. Ok, my choices, now that I've spent all this money on all these hinges: 1.

Install the hinge snug, with no jutting out. If we do this, the doors do not close all the way on their own. They boing open. However, we have cabinet latches that will hold the doors shut. I guess this adds stress to the hinge, but is that a problem? TheHusband doesn't want to do this because it is inelegant, and he thinks it looks like a hack job.

He wants things to be done properly. Back bevel ALL the doors. I don't want to do this. What if we mess up? The thick, fir 80 year old doors are irreplaceable.

Besides, I've just finished priming all the doors. I don't want to lug out the primer yet again.

This is TheHusband's choice. Mortise all the hinges? Probably way more work than back beveling.

And TheHusband hasn't done this before, so there is that whole 'learning curve' thing. One last question: Assuming we just go with option 1. Is there a trick/method to installing these hinges? Each door seems to be a careful custom job to get each wonky door centered in each wonky frame. Nothing is 'standard' in this old kitchen.

Is there a basic measuring technique we can use? Or is each door going to be a new experience in positioning.

Our test door looks like swiss cheese, it has so many holes in it. (I can try to post pictures if I have failed to explain any of this clearly.) That was long. If you made it this far, thank you thank you for any help you can offer!!! What I've noticed is that over time, with old doors, is that the mortised area tends to get 'pushed in' toward the edge, so when you remove all the gunk like paint/filler and remount the hinge, it sits lower in front, increasing the distance the door has to swing beyond 90 degrees. (I may not be able to describe it better.sorry). Here's a trick I've done.(if I'm understanding your problem correctly).' Build up' the mortised-out area toward the edge of the door with small strips of cardboard.

I glue it to the door. This lets the hinge sit a bit proud and seems to relieve some of the stress on the door, allowing it to close better. In fact, when I removed some of the same pot-metal hinges you are describing from 100-year old oak cabinet doors, I found that at some point someone had done exactly that. Ahh.A picture is worth a thousand words, lol. I'm glad you posted these as I had a different understanding of what you were talking about.

OK, here's Plan B;-) No need to mortise anything. As for the back beveling you can use a hand plane. Clamp the board down and just run the plane down the side 2 maybe 3 times at a slight angle 3-5 degrees (no more). A block plane would probably be the best tool to use, though a bench plane will work fine also. If using a table saw, tilt the blade a few degrees and run the piece through. As for the door springing open, it's most likely the screws aren't all flush.